In the Genes: Exploring the Role of Genetics in Thyroid Health | Dr Denise Furness | Ep 105

In this episode, I'm talking with Dr. Denise Furness, a genetic nutritionist, and researcher, to dive into the fascinating world of Nutrigenomics. Dr. Furness explains how our genes influence our nutritional needs and health outcomes, and how understanding this field can empower individuals to make informed decisions about their diet and lifestyle. They explore the impact of genetics on thyroid health, stress management, and even Alzheimer's risk, shedding light on how we can work with our genetic predispositions for long-term well-being.

Key topics

1. Introduction to Nutrigenomics (00:56)
- Understanding how genes influence nutritional needs and health
- The role of genetic testing in personalised health strategies

2. Nutrigenomics and Thyroid Health (09:24)
- How specific genes can affect thyroid function and metabolism
- Addressing nutrient deficiencies to support thyroid health
- Diet and lifestyle tips for optimising thyroid function - we cover the link between gluten and thyroid and the coeliac/thyroid connection.

3. Managing Stress through Nutrigenomics (20:10)
- The connection between genetics, stress, and the methylation pathway
- How stress impacts hormone balance and estrogen clearance
- Dietary strategies for supporting stress resilience

4. Unraveling the MTHFR Gene (46:10)
- Understanding the role of MTHFR in folate metabolism and DNA synthesis
- The impact of MTHFR on hormone balance and estrogen clearance
- Testing for MTHFR and other genetic variations

5. The Hopeful Message of Nutrigenomics (57:52)
- Empowering individuals to optimise their health despite genetic predispositions
- The importance of lifestyle and preventive health strategies

Nutrigenomics offers a new level of understanding into the impact of our genes on health and wellness. Dr. Denise Furness provides valuable insights into optimizing thyroid function, managing stress, and even addressing genetic risk factors for Alzheimer's. Learn how to work with your genes, not against them, to unlock the potential for optimal health and well-being.

Connect with Dr Furness:
drdenisefurness.com.au
info@genenutrition.com.au
Facebook Group

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Transcript

Annabel Bateman: 0:01

Hello and welcome to episode 105 of the let's Talk Thyroid podcast. I'm your host, annabel Bateman, and today I'm talking with Dr Denise Furness. All about genetics. Is there a thyroid gene? How do our genetic combinations in this all individually impact on our thyroid health? It's a really fascinating conversation. It's one that we haven't touched on before on the podcast, so this is one that everyone should be interested in. Whether you decide you want to dig into your genetics or not, I think you're going to find this really interesting.

Annabel Bateman: 0:34

Let me tell you a little bit about Dr Denise Furness. First, she is a molecular geneticist and registered nutritionist, a pioneer in the field of nutrigenomics and epigenetics, which is like that precision medicine, really specific to the individual, with lots of experience over 20 years experience. She began her career as a research scientist, focusing on folate nutrigenomics, methylation, which you'll probably think about, the MTHFR gene, which we're definitely going to cover, and DNA damage. She's published her work in peer-reviewed journals, won lots of awards for her research and presentations. She founded in 2012 your Genes and Nutrition, which is her business, and began applying that genetic knowledge into clinical practice. She's got a special interest in fertility, thyroid and autoimmunity. She herself has had Graves disease and we cover that in the conversation as well as well as an interest in healthy aging, where at the moment she's actually running a biological aging study. So she's right in the thick of the research and the clinical practice. She's another fellow Aussie, so I'm really thrilled that she is joining me on the podcast.

Annabel Bateman: 1:46

Don't forget to stick around. At the very end. I've got a couple of questions in my little kiss. Give it super simple thyroid coaching segment to get you thinking about what you can apply from what you have just listened to. So enjoy the episode. Welcome to let's Talk Thyroid. I'm your host, annabel Bateman. This podcast is here to offer you hope and strategies for your own thyroid health. I'm a thyroid coach, author and patient. I've had Hashimoto's for well over 25 years and I'm very much on this thyroid friendly lifestyle journey with you. For more information, go to Let'sTalkThyroidcom. All right, welcome Denise Furness to the let's Talk Thyroid podcast. Another fellow Aussie. I always love having Australians on the show, so welcome.

Dr Denise Furness: 2:50

Hello, I'm very happy to be here.

Annabel Bateman: 2:53

Now you're in Sunshine Coast, is that right?

Dr Denise Furness: 2:56

Correct. I'm up in the Nusa hinterland. I was born and bred in Melbourne and then went over to Adelaide, did nine, nearly 10 years of research that we'll probably talk about and then moved home to Melbourne, had all the autoimmune thyroid disease. Thankfully I was home, had some family around me because I was sick for a while and then moved up here six years ago and it's good for thyroid, it's good for everything, yeah that's right.

Annabel Bateman: 3:24

Well, so not even a fellow Australian, but a fellow Southeast Queenslander, because I'm in Brisbane. We're really almost neighbors really, so that's really nice.

Dr Denise Furness: 3:33

Yeah, so we're getting our vitamin D. Good for our immune system, good for keeping those autoantibodies in check.

Annabel Bateman: 3:41

Yeah, absolutely yeah, it is a good climate for autoimmune disease. Actually, living in Queensland, it really is. Yeah. So, denise, tell me, well, we're going to have a conversation all about your expertise in genetics and nutrition and thyroid, and so this is going to be really interesting. We've never covered anything like this on the show before, so I'm thrilled to have you here. But I'm wondering I know, like so many of us in this space, we have our own thyroid stories. Are you able to share just a bit about your thyroid story and how that fits in with you working in this health space?

Dr Denise Furness: 4:21

Yeah, well, initially, even though I'm a geneticist and have been working in the space of genetics and MTHFR and methylation, my I guess focus was more around fertility and pregnancy health. But then, after having my own thyroid journey, I've definitely delved deep into that because I've recovered myself now, know it is possible well and truly to recover and also thyroid also is connected so tightly with fertility anyway. So I do work with a lot of women with thyroid issues wanting to get pregnant. But yeah, with my talking about pregnancy, it was interesting because for nine years working in obstetrics, gynecology, so as a scientist, a PhD, and then I did my postdoctoral fellowship at the Women's and Children's in Adelaide, I was like when I get pregnant, I'm just going to eat so well, I'm going to exercise and I'm going to be in these gorgeous dresses, I'm going to do everything right. And I had to eat my words because I developed a thyroid condition and then actually fell pregnant, which is sort of unusual. But the story goes that I was experiencing some symptoms that unfortunately got sort of pushed to the side. I'm not one to really go to the doctor much, but they're like oh, it's probably stress. I had some palpitations, so I had hyperthyroid, so graves and I'd lost a bit of weight, which was really unusual for me because I was someone who exercised at a high level, tried to, was probably a little bit orthorexic Now I think back like a bit obsessed with food in the sense that, yeah, so I was very conscious of those things. So, to lose a little bit of weight, you know, when you know your body I was like but of course very stupid at that young age. I was in my early 30s. At that stage, yeah, I was like, oh, this is great, losing a bit of weight, oh, my bowels have increased, I'm going a bit more frequently. Oh, okay, what's happening here? So definitely quite a few symptoms prior to really getting sick, but pushed them to the side and then got very sick. I fell pregnant, which I think confused things. So then I was going to the doctor saying, hey, I feel hungover every single day, like I'm nauseous, I've got headaches, I had a tremor, my blood pressure was up, heart rate and they kind of just like, oh, you're pregnant.

Dr Denise Furness: 6:37

Long story short, I had moved back to Melbourne and I flew over to Adelaide for a work meeting and it was very hard for me even to fly. I had to have medication, just to, you know, get out of the house. So I was really sick and I walked in and one of the obstetricians I worked with just looked at me and was like outpatients now and interestingly, saw who my PhD supervisor one of them, dr Bill Hague, who's a gynecologist but specializing in endocrinology as well and yeah, was diagnosed and was really sick. They said you're thyroid toxic. You know you could lose the baby went on high dose medication. I was told I would feel better within a few weeks. But those of you who've experienced thyroid issues and gone on medication, yes, symptoms, whether you're hyper or hyper, yes, the medication will ease some of those symptoms, like the tremor went away, the nausea went away, this throbbing headache I've just to think about the worst hangover in the world every single day.

Dr Denise Furness: 7:40

You know, and on that note, I do remember saying to the doctor, one of the obstetricians, because, as I said, I was pregnant, I saw a number of different GPs and doctors and again, no one really diagnosed me, no one looked at my thyroid. But I said to her you know, if this is what it feels like to have a baby, I can guarantee you we would become extinct. You know, no one would have children and I'm sure they just thought unfortunately they didn't know me because I'm quite resilient and you know a high achiever had gone from someone who's running you know big international research studies had a you know business on the side in the fitness industry, partied like it was 1999, all these things obviously led to getting an autoimmune disease with you know genetic predispositions. I found out I was low in vitamin D, all that stuff. But yeah, unfortunately I was missed and did get very, very unwell.

Dr Denise Furness: 8:30

But once I was diagnosed, went on the medication yes, symptoms, ees but didn't feel better. I think I probably still had some of the mental health at the time I wouldn't have thought of it like this. But you know years, you know years later you can reflect. I think there was still maybe a slight depression. But we know thyroid does impact your mood and you know your energy. I definitely didn't feel like me. That's what I can say is that, even though the medication took some of the symptoms away, I wasn't back, denise wasn't back. It was a long time before I woke up one day and went oh I'm here, I've arrived. You know it took a while to get to that space of and that obviously came with coming off medication stuff as well. So so, yeah, that is my story and yeah, sadly, I got really, really sick.

Dr Denise Furness: 9:19

I was told, like most people, that you know it's a lifelong condition, you know you won't recover, you'll need to be on medication forever. One of the GPs in Melbourne lovely, lovely, you know, gentlemen, nothing against him, but I guess not understanding the type of person I am and probably some of your listeners if they're listening, you don't just want to be told you know it's fine, you can just have medication, we can deal with this. You want to know why. You want to know what can I do? You know you have questions and I just remember him saying don't worry, thyroid issues are really common. Lots of women get them. It's a good one to have because we can treat it. We just remove your thyroid. You're on thyroxin the rest of your life and I'm there going. I'm going to be on hormones the rest of my life. You want to take out my thyroid.

Dr Denise Furness: 10:07

And then you know I obviously didn't go down that route and then did even have a few clashes, you know, unfortunately, with some endocrinologist and when I say clash, never rude or abrupt, but not wanting to follow that advice and that was difficult for some of the people, I guess, that were trying to care for me when they think you have to do this or you're going to die. Because I was told directly at one point, after having my little boy, who thankfully is fine, I was told there may be some complications but he's 11 now, totally healthy, on the ball. Yeah, physically, you know, and you know, mentally, iq wise, you know, we were very concerned, we were told all sorts of things but he was okay. But yeah, that endocrinologist, after I had Harry, said you know, you've had aggressive graves.

Dr Denise Furness: 10:56

You know, my antibodies were so high that I had to dilute my bloods to get levels Like I was very sick. So I said I was in a state of thyroid toxicosis. And so he said you know, the only way to deal with this is to remove your thyroid. You won't be able to be near your baby. You know it's radioactive iodide, all this stuff. And I said, oh, that's not what I want to do. And he said, well, you will die early and you won't have any more children. And I think the approach was to help me.

Annabel Bateman: 11:24

In his eyes it's to scare you into doing it.

Dr Denise Furness: 11:27

Yeah, but I left in tears. And then, you know, the next time we had an appointment, my husband came and we asked for second opinions. And I'm not sure if any of the listeners or even yourself and Abel have had this experience. But what was interesting, when I had the second opinion from someone who was as high up as this professor and head of you know, the department said I would never remove the thyroid of a reproductive age woman if she wants to get pregnant again. So I've just had one endocrinologist basically tell me this is what you have to do and if you don't, you won't get pregnant again, you could die early, etc.

Dr Denise Furness: 12:01

And then when we got the second opinion, he said stay on medication until you get pregnant. And then he said and after you get pregnant, I'm also an older mother, so they probably weren't thinking I was going to have many more babies, you know, after that. But he said after you get pregnant, then we'll remove your thyroid, then you'll be on thyroxin. Or he said your thyroid may have even burnt out by that stage, you know, and then you'll have to be on thyroxin anyway. So a bit of a different approach. But that didn't happen. I got covered, I got off medication and, yeah, felt, felt better than ever for a while. I've had a little blip. We've had some blips along the way, that's the up and down road of thyroid thyroid conditions.

Dr Denise Furness: 12:42

But that's my story and since then have helped so many people with graves and Hashimoto's recover. And definitely what I want to say to everyone. I'm sure your listeners probably know this because they're listening to you and all the things you talk about. But that is not true. It is not true that it's a lifelong diagnosis. It is not true that you can't recover from an autoimmune disease.

Dr Denise Furness: 13:05

As a geneticist, with my knowledge and around epigenetics and genetics, the reason why this didn't sit with me is because I understand that at a genetic level, at a cellular level, things are not stagnant. A diagnosis is never your prognosis, because your body is changing every second of the day. We're responding to our food, our environment, our stresses, so we are just not the same for one year, five year, 10 years. Your cells are dying and replicating, getting new ones. Your skin cells, daily are sloughing off and you're getting new ones. Your organs are regenerating every year. So why would you be sick for the rest of your life? That doesn't make sense to me. If you can start to put the right things in, dig a little deeper and find out why this might have occurred.

Annabel Bateman: 13:56

That's a really good point because I think we think, well, we're born with our DNA, We've got that genetic. Genetics are somewhat set Like. Even so, just that reminder, I suppose, that we do renew on that cellular basis on a regular basis and we can change. I think that of itself is really helpful. So how, when we start to think about the whole topic of genetics and autoimmune disease, I suppose, in particular, and thyroid health, where do we even, I mean, where do we start with that?

Dr Denise Furness: 14:30

So it's probably not the typical place to start for a lot of you know integrative, you know medical doctors and naturopaths, but obviously I'm a geneticist, so this is what I do and the reality is I think it's extremely helpful. It obviously helped me pinpoint the things I need to do and help sort of keep me as we had a little chat just before we're online a bit of help me, you know stay and check a little bit, a bit of the kick in the arse that sometimes we need when we I don't want to say go off the rails, but I will say that I have an adventurous personality and I like socializing and I am prone to overdoing things, whether it's work, whether it's exercise, you know. So sometimes having this knowledge of these susceptibilities can help you just remind you and go hey, that's probably a bit much, but with genetics you know when you say where do you start? There are a lot of genetic testing companies in Australia and the type of genetics that I do and that you would do with an integrative practitioner or a functional medicine doctor is very different to clinical genetics. It's probably important that I just clarify that in case you pop into your GP or you are seeing your endocrinologist and you want to ask about genetics, they're likely not going to be too familiar with what I do and the type of genetics I'm talking about, because there is clinical genetics and that is when you are seeing a clinical geneticist a medical doctor that specializes in genetics and they are looking for a disease or a condition that is caused generally by one gene, like cystic fibrosis or hunting and disease or something like that the type of genetics that I do.

Dr Denise Furness: 16:15

I work in a space called Nutri genomics and I was first attracted to this area because, as I mentioned, I was into diet and exercise and my own health and as a geneticist, I heard about this nutritional genomics and personalized diet and learning about how our food interacts with our DNA and I was like, oh my God, I love it. So I applied for a PhD scholarship and was awarded that and when I worked at CSRO human nutrition and Adelaide under someone called Michael Fenwick so he's one of the international gurus of Nutri genomics around the world. He's amazing. So I was very lucky to work at CSRO and do my PhD with him. So this area of genetics is not about finding one gene that causes a disease, say like Hashimoto's or Graves or whatever it may be.

Dr Denise Furness: 17:08

This is about looking at a range of genes that influence your nutritional requirements, your susceptibility to possible health conditions, things like that. So the area that I particularly focused on was called methylation, or folate neutrogenomics. I researched MTHFR and a whole host of genes in that pathway because they're very important for fertility, but also very important for thyroid and other conditions as well. So methylation is a process in the body that's important for detoxification, for energy, eating, hormones, even epigenetics, which is to do with turning genes off and on. So it has a lot of functions in the body. But really we want to look at lots of different genes that you've inherited from your parents. That may mean you, for example, need more folate if you do have that MTHFR.

Dr Denise Furness: 18:02

Or we talked about vitamin D briefly. Some people are likely to require more vitamin D. Some people will supplement with vitamin D, but they break it down at a faster rate because they've got enzymes that work a little faster. So they might need a bit more vitamin D if they're supplementing. And I keep saying vitamin D because if we're thinking about autoimmune disease from a genetic aspect, I look for nutrients that are key for immune regulation, immune balance, like vitamin D, vitamin A, even other things like zinc and minerals or omega-3s we know these are really important for helping with our immune system and inflammation.

Dr Denise Furness: 18:43

But specifically with thyroid, though, like if someone came to me, let's say, annabel, you came to me and said you know, do I have the gene for Hashimoto's? There is no one gene. These are what we call sort of multifactorial or sort of you know a lot of these chronic conditions. There are many genes that are what we call associated. So, for example, when it comes to thyroid either Hashimoto's or Graves there are genes called HLA's, or human leukocyte antigens, and if any of the listeners have done some genetic testing, you might even know these, because these are the genes we test when we're looking for celiac disease.

Annabel Bateman: 19:24

So the HLA's- Is that why there's so much correlation between celiac and?

Dr Denise Furness: 19:32

Yes.

Annabel Bateman: 19:32

Yeah, interesting yeah.

Dr Denise Furness: 19:35

So if you do have those HLA's and you have been told by your doctor and this is the kind of testing that is a bit more common and can be done with your GP.

Dr Denise Furness: 19:47

Just know, though, if you did some, if you were going in to find out if you had celiac disease. They don't always do genetics. Sometimes they might do like serology, looking for certain things in the blood to sort of show that you're reacting to gluten. But if you did the genetic test for celiac disease, you'd be looking at these kind of clusters. It's not just one, one change in the HLA, it's multiple changes in these HLA genes. And just to step back and tell you, if you're interested, without getting too sciencey everyone sorry I get so excited about the science but the HLA's they're called human leukocyte antigens. These are directly involved with making antibodies. So if you have Hashimoto's or Graves, you have an autoimmune disease because you have developed antibodies that attack your thyroid. So you can be hypothyroid but not have Hashimoto's. You might just have low thyroid because you are deficient in iodine or you know there's something else going on. In saying that I do want to throw out there, be very, very cautious with iodine. I can trigger autoimmune thyroid disease and I do believe, now that I understand my history, because this is the type of person I am I really want to understand why I developed that disease and I think it helps also with releasing a lot of the shame and the guilt and all the weird stuff that comes with being sick. But in Australia, in 2009, we fortified our salt and bread with iodine. So we have we have iodized salt, and then that went into the bread. That we know from other studies around the world Once there is iodine fortification, there generally tends to be an increase in autoimmune thyroid disease, graves and Hashimoto's. So 2011 is when my symptoms came along, so that is possibly part of the story. So you know, having iodine even though I said, iodine deficiency, which is fact, is associated with low thyroid be very cautious. I would say, if you're going to supplement with iodine, definitely be working with a practitioner or just getting some blood levels just to monitor you to make sure you don't go into having a flare. But yes, you can be a hypothyroid or hyperthyroid and not have an autoimmune component.

Dr Denise Furness: 22:06

But if you have these HLA genes, you do have a genetic susceptibility of predisposition. It means you've got genes that recognize a portion of you know the thyroid DNA and you will then go on to make antibodies to attack your thyroid. It's the same with gluten. You have these HLA's that recommend, that recognize, sorry, a little bit of that amino acid sequence, that protein, and go, oh, you're dangerous. You know, the body thinks it's either a pathogen or you know something that's going to harm it, but it recognizes a tiny portion and says, oh, I'm going to now mount an immune response, I'm going to make antibodies and I'm going to attack this because it's bad.

Dr Denise Furness: 22:45

But the reality is it's just gluten or it's actually, you know, part of your thyroid. So you need to have these genes that then recognize this sequence, that then develop these antibodies. So there are these HLA's. When it comes specifically to thyroid disease or autoimmune disease, there are different HLA changes that are more closely linked to thyroid disease and these aren't frequently tested. To be honest, there is one DNA testing company that does a very good autoimmune panel, but aside from that testing company, most of the others I don't know if we can mention names, but just know there are lots of different testing companies. Yeah, but if you're doing.

Annabel Bateman: 23:30

It doesn't matter, I don't have any connection with them, it's all good yeah no-transcript.

Dr Denise Furness: 23:35

Yeah, I don't have any connections with any of these companies. I don't get any kickbacks To disclose if there are people listening. I did help BicityCools develop a test but I don't get any kickbacks from that. I just paid for my time. But the company that offers that autoimmune screen is DNA Life. So they're in Europe but they do offer testing here in Australia. There's an Australian distributor. So they have got a good autoimmune if that's what you are interested in.

Dr Denise Furness: 24:01

But that gives a lot of information around autoimmune with rheumatoid arthritis and a lot of autoimmune diseases aside from thyroid. And I would say to the listeners if you're interested in that, I wouldn't just do the autoimmune screen, because if you want to actually get well, improve your health, whether it be fertility, healthy aging or just to recover, I would do that alongside, like a health report that does have or information on the vitamin D, the A, the methylation, all these other things that we can work on to try to understand your unique differences, how we might be able to tweak things from a dietary perspective, how we might be able to tailor some supplements for you if you've got any nutrient deficiencies, if you're likely to need more of these things. So with the genetics. We're really looking at a whole host of different genes, understanding your unique needs. If you do have some of these inherited susceptibilities, and then what we can do to compensate. Because even if you have a gene for, say, that's linked with low vitamin D, that does not mean you've got low vitamin D, because if you're out in the sun and you're living up in Queensland like us, and we're outside or you're supplementing, then you're compensating. It doesn't matter that you've inherited this. If you've got MTHFR and you're getting plenty of folate and B vitamins and you're pushing that whole cycle, then it's not a negative.

Dr Denise Furness: 25:28

If you've got the genes linking with vitamin A. If you're a vegan or vegetarian, it can be a bit more of an issue because the SNP we call them poor converters. They don't convert the vitamin A, which is beta-carotene, into the retinol form so well. So we want to make sure if you are vegan or vegetarian, you're then supplementing with a retinoic acid or some kind of active form of vitamin A. So we look at this information and then, even from a dietary perspective, we can get a bit of a crude understanding if you are likely to be a bit more sensitive to fats or carbs, and then we can say this is the kind of diet that might be a bit more suit you from a metabolic and a weight perspective as well. So yeah, it's lots of fun. We dig in and I like to look at lots of different genes, but just know none of them are sort of diagnosing anything. They're just things to help us improve your health at that sort of genetic level.

Annabel Bateman: 26:25

So we might come back in a little bit to that sort of specific testing. But we've often say you know, autoimmune thyroid runs in family, so there obviously is a genetic component. But what you're saying is that it's a cluster. You end up with a cluster of genes. Is that right? And so that can pass on. So that's why we find out. You know mums and sisters and you know, oh yes, my mom's got a thyroid issue, or my sister does, or my, you know, and so it seems to. So there is a genetic component to have. Do you have to have a genetic component, I guess, to have Hashimoto's or grapes Like? Is there a yes?

Dr Denise Furness: 27:07

Yeah, so there is a genetic component, but it's not one gene, it's multiple genes, it's multiple genetic variations which are slight changes that have been inherited. So in my case my father had graves, which is really interesting because it's a lot rarer Autoimmune stuff is rarer in men and his I think auntie and grandma. Unfortunately I didn't know that. If I had have known my history too, that might have been helpful with a quicker diagnosis. And I may not have been.

Dr Denise Furness: 27:38

You know, I was probably wiped out for a good year or so, like I left my job. And I mean I wanted to leave my job anyway because, as anyone suffering with thyroid stuff, you know you're not in a great place, you know it's hard, you're not happy in a sense. You know you're. Anyone with a chronic condition is very hard to be satisfied with what's going on in your life because there is an imbalance in your body. It's hard to be, you know.

Dr Denise Furness: 28:02

So I thought I was unhappy at work and I was. But I look back now and actually the issue was, you know, with me I was unwell, so I left before I got really, really sick, but I had definitely was having a lot of symptoms before I left work. But I couldn't have worked, my brain wasn't working. I had days where, you know, for those of you who've had graves and if you weren't diagnosed not so common in Hashimoto's, because Hashimoto's you get constipated but with graves, you know when it's extreme, you know you have no control over your bowels. So you know I didn't really want to leave the house because I was going to shit myself.

Annabel Bateman: 28:40

Yeah, it's not really fun, yeah, yeah.

Dr Denise Furness: 28:46

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's awful either way. Hashimoto's is a lot more common and but that is Hashimoto's, you know. You're just so, so tired and the body is just struggling, you know, wants to sort of go into almost that hibernation mode. But yeah, it's definitely a cluster of genes, it is inherited and to develop the autoimmune component you have to have the genetics. So if you think about autoimmune disease, you know it's often sort of, you know, three things coming together at once. You need to have that genetic predisposition, and some of us have it and some of us don't, and we can look at genetics and find out. You know, even for those who perhaps don't have these conditions but just want to know, I mean, if you've developed it, then it's likely, you know, you already know. But we can still then look at other things to tweak your health, personalize, you know, advice, the lifestyle and diet. But there's the genetic component.

Dr Denise Furness: 29:40

There's generally like an immune component, because something has to go wrong with the immune system. Even though you have these HLA's, even though there's the potential to make these antibodies, generally there is something going on with the immune system and often it's an infection. You find that a lot of people that develop thyroid autoimmune disease, have had either Epstein bar or you know they've got really, really sick. First you know they had an infection, they got really sick and then they didn't recover. And then there's sort of some environmental trigger to whether that's a stress or a toxin or something like that. And when I say immune, if you do look into all of this, some of you may have often that immune does tie into the gut as well, because 70% of our immune system is housed within the gut and I mentioned there could be an infection. But often there is an eating disorder prior to all of these, where people have mucked up their microbiome or had some gut trauma somehow and then that's affected their immune system as well.

Annabel Bateman: 30:45

So yeah, so there's the trifecta. So you're saying you have a genetic predisposition, an impact on your immune system and then some other environmental trigger.

Dr Denise Furness: 30:55

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Annabel Bateman: 30:56

So you're creating I couldn't describe it as like the perfect storm you just sort of. You know there's one. There's never just one thing, it's a combination of things with that predisposition. So are there. When we're talking about those genetic clusters and you mentioned before the HLA's with celiac so I mean I know that there's a strong correlation between celiac and Hashimoto's and, for example, like I've had that genetic, the blood test for celiac. So I know I have the celiac gene but don't.

Dr Denise Furness: 31:33

Me too.

Annabel Bateman: 31:34

Yeah, and I know my son because I thought, like a couple of years ago I thought he was showing hypothyroid symptoms. He was in year 12 at school and I thought, oh gosh, please no. And he was okay. He bit low to vitamin D and has the celiac gene. So I'm like, well, you know, I mean he's. He was good for a little while with the gluten. And now I was like, well, you're setting yourself up. I was just saying you're setting yourself up, so I know for me. Well, I'm pretty sure maybe you tell me if I'm right or wrong. Like if I have a neat and gluten for 12 years, but if I feel like if I was still eating it, probably by now given that I've already got Hashimoto's for a very long time I probably would have triggered the celiac.

Dr Denise Furness: 32:19

Yeah. So there's definitely a risk. Of course we can't say that you know you definitely would have, but you are.

Annabel Bateman: 32:27

No, I feel like it's probably. The odds are that it probably would have been a pretty good chance yeah.

Dr Denise Furness: 32:31

I mean two things. One, you've got the genetic predisposition. So it's definitely possible, because you will never become celiac if you don't have those HLA genes. So, as we said, you have to have the genes. So, number one, you've got the genes that give you that genetic risk. Number two, you already have an autoimmune condition and once you've got one autoimmune condition, the chances of getting another. And actually my story goes to that.

Dr Denise Furness: 32:58

I had a little flare after my daughter. By the way, everyone I did have another child going off medication, not getting rid of my thyroid totally naturally at 39, nearly 40. And to be honest, not to rub anyone's nose in it, because I work in fertility and I know that pregnancy can be hard, but that's. I'm very lucky that that wasn't an issue for us. So I fell pregnant with her, but then I did have a little flare. By the time she was about six months. But looking back, it was a recipe for disaster. You mentioned the perfect storm.

Dr Denise Furness: 33:33

My intention was to have a year off and I could have had a year off. My husband could have taken the load financially, because usually that's me with the business, but we had. He's very conscious of my health after getting sick and seeing me so sick. So the agreement was because he was a bit scared about having another child. After seeing what I went through last time, he's like I thought I must have lost you. So the agreement was I'd have a year off, I would take it easy, and I went part time just before falling pregnant. Anyway, long story short, with the personality I've got before I knew it, I'm popping off overseas and I'm doing talks and I'm taking the baby and breastfeeding and all these things. And yeah, I had a little flare, and it's no surprise because I was probably pushing myself and all the signs and symptoms were there. I lost weight very quickly. I wanted to tell myself I was super woman, super mama. I looked great but deep down I was like this is not true.

Annabel Bateman: 34:25

This is all like something's going on. I thought we were still super woman, but super mama. There's another reason for it.

Dr Denise Furness: 34:34

Yeah, and then I just felt that little flutter and I didn't get nearly as sick as last time because I knew obviously I knew my history. So I just went straight in and had my thyroid tested. But sadly, what happened at the same time, even though I didn't get as sick and I went on back on medication, which obviously I got off again, but I developed severe psoriasis. I'd never had psoriasis in my entire life and at like 40, I just developed it was, and it took me over a year to recover from that. And so that's the thing with an autoimmune disease Once you've had one, the chances of getting another. And talking about gluten, I did not completely get rid of gluten the first time I recovered. But part of my story too is I was living in a house in Melbourne, in Q, if anyone knows Q beautiful suburb, loved it, but it had mold and it probably wasn't great for me. But I was like, oh, I'm across the road from the Yarra and it's beautiful and but it was a really old house. It had mold. At the time I didn't realize that mold was such a big trigger for these autoimmune conditions. So I already had symptoms before moving in. But when I got sick. Sick, when I tell you. I was bedridden and losing control of my bowels and couldn't think that I was living in that house, and I think that exacerbated everything. My husband even developed a dermatitis thing under his eyes which, when we both moved, his went away and that was obviously helped with my healing. But the second time, yeah, I didn't get nearly as sick, but the psoriasis was pretty bad. But I did give up gluten completely and I believe that I probably wouldn't have recovered completely if gluten stayed in my diet, like my body just.

Dr Denise Furness: 36:17

And I have those HLA's for celiac and for thyroid. And I know now, even when I do eat gluten every now and again, and because I do, now that I've recovered and I'm well, I'm always kind of pushing the boundaries. I'm a bit terrible like that. But if I have had, you know, I've been out for a drink or something and then the next day I'm a bit lazy with my diet, I noticed because my psoriasis was extreme on my hands. They were all peeling, I lost stability, they weren't even waterproof anymore. So it was, it was pretty serious. But I start getting itchy on my hands and I just know it's like, okay, my body's telling me, but I have a very low sugar, low gluten diet and do take care of myself to keep all these things in check.

Dr Denise Furness: 36:58

But talking about the genetics, you know what's helpful is knowing that I have these HLA genes, like you do, like your son does, and going okay, gluten's a trigger for me. I am going to make a big effort to have a low gluten or, if you're in the recovery stage, you're trying to get into remission, completely removing gluten, because it's what we call molecular mimicry. Gluten can trigger those thyroid antibodies. As we know, they're both on the HLA's. You know similar things.

Dr Denise Furness: 37:28

So, getting rid of gluten, although it's not part of conventional medicine, because I've asked many doctors too, I'm like do you think diet has anything to do with it? I don't tell them what I do and they're oh no, no, no, diet's got nothing to do with it. And they're going hmm, okay, well, there's actually tons of science around this, but obviously they're, you know, trained in a certain way and you know not reading all the papers and things like that that are coming out. But there is a connection with gluten and I would suggest to all of you, while in getting off gluten, it doesn't mean that will cure you, but it's one of the things that you can do on that healing journey to take the pressure off. You know gluten's inflammatory help with the gut, help balance the immune system and if you've got those genes, don't even hesitate. You know, don't. If you've got the HLA's with celiac, you know you've got this predisposition. You want to get well. You know, don't have gluten.

Annabel Bateman: 38:20

Yeah, yeah, and I think it's just adding that extra. I mean, we've been saying that. Probably every second guest of mine says that. So I think if you're a regular listener, you've got to get the gluten. I get it. I get it.

Dr Denise Furness: 38:34

Now you know there's a genetic thing. If you're really struggling with the gluten, come and see me, we'll find out. Or actually you don't even have to see me, because if you've got an open GP, this is something they can do. When we talk about the other genetics around methylation, the vitamin D, the vitamin A, the detoxification, you know all of these other things that your GP unless they're an integrative practitioner have studied with an organization called ACNAM I'm on the faculty so we teach doctors about this. There are some GPs, but majority of them. This will be out of their scope and they may just think what are you talking about? But if it comes to celiac disease, you can say if you've got a family history remember there's a medical model and they've got a tick boxers to be on Medicare. But if you do have a family history of celiac, you know you're having some gut symptoms. Tell them and you should be able to get that on Medicare. If you don't, or if you want the whole extensive thing, then look for a practitioner that specializes in that nutrigenomics field.

Annabel Bateman: 39:34

Yeah, that's good, are there? I want to ask you about the MTH FR gene because I think everyone's heard of that one and obviously that's your specialty. But before I do, there's a correlation between celiac and Hashimoto's or, you know, thyroid. Are there other common genetic predispositions that come that kind of sit alongside your autoimmune thyroid disease?

Dr Denise Furness: 40:01

So the reason I've mentioned vitamin D so many times is, I think, the vitamin D definitely, and we know that low vitamin D is a risk factor for autoimmune disease in general, not just thyroid. So I look for the vitamin D snips. I also look particularly for vitamin A, and the reason I do that I think sometimes vitamin A is forgotten. Even myself, a while back, I was involved in a media campaign, you know, promoting, you know, vitamin D and making sure people are aware. I know I have a lot to do with bone health though, but I realized after it I'd done all these news. You know, I was on the TV on the news man's like, oh, this is so exciting, and I thought, you know, we haven't spoken to anyone about vitamin A. And the reality is, vitamin D cannot do its job when we're talking about supporting the immune system unless it combined to a vitamin A receptor. These things kind of sit on top of the DNA and then they trigger all of these genes. Turning on all these you know important things in the immune system and again, my story, which has obviously, obviously affects of the way that I practice and the way that I treat my patients and clients, is I look for vitamin A, because it's a bit of a funny story, I didn't think about vitamin A, even for myself, because I'm learning too. You know, even though I'm a geneticist. You know you're on this journey and you're always sort of taking things in, actually, and I was presenting at ABC studios like a live it was them being broadcast it a live thing with, you know, practitioners and doctors talking about genetics teaching and hello puppy, and yeah. So I was up there teaching about this particular gene. It's called BCMO1, beta-carotene monooxygenase one, a long name. Don't worry about it. But if you've done DNA testing because some of you might have you might wanna go and have a look for that one. So I was up there and I said, oh, you know this is BCMO1 and you know, if you have this gene you're called a poor converter. You don't convert that beta-carotene into vitamin A.

Dr Denise Furness: 42:00

And I said you know, talk to your patients about their symptoms to find out if they're low in vitamin A. You know, vision is a big thing. If you've got a bit of night blindness, if this is, you, listen to what I'm saying. If you, at dusk, you know you go to drive and you're struggling to see, that can be linked with. You know, low vitamin A If you're having skin issues.

Dr Denise Furness: 42:20

I had acne like worse than when I was a teenager. So this was to do with all the psoriasis stuff the psoriasis stuff as well. This was part of not just getting off the gluten. I added vitamin A but my skin was terrible. I had little pimples, I was dry, I had psoriasis on parts of my body. Anyway, I'm up there going. Skin's really important Eye is really important. Look for all these symptoms of vitamin A.

Dr Denise Furness: 42:44

And I actually stopped on stage. The whole thing's being recorded. There's all these cameras and I was like shit, I'm vitamin A deficient. I'm vitamin A deficient. So I went on a relatively high dose of vitamin A and I wouldn't do that without a practitioner. But even if you don't have a practitioner, pop into your local pharmacy. Most of the pharmacists will have someone who has knowledge on supplements and vitamins. Talk to them about vitamin A. You know it's always best if you have the opportunity to work with someone and get your levels tested and talk. But if you don't I understand not everyone does you can go to your pharmacist, but don't just go and just buy something and have it. Talk to someone. But I went on vitamin A and it was a game changer for my skin, like game changer. But again, I also had gone off gluten and all sorts of things and both times I recovered.

Dr Denise Furness: 43:38

I will say that I also left or reduced my hours of work. Stress is a major component that everyone needs to acknowledge and I understand not everyone can leave their job. We have bills, we have commitments, but there is no doubt that you can reduce your total load in the sense of commitments. It's not always about work or even being honest with an employer and saying this workload's impacting my health. Or can we change things? Being open with your thyroid.

Dr Denise Furness: 44:12

To recover, you need to take control of your life and that's not always easy. But all those little steps are gonna help you feel empowered, are gonna help you feel that you are getting on top of it and, yeah, stepping back. You need time to heal, you need to rest. You cannot keep doing the same things and expect to get well. Just adding in a supplement or just changing your diet is probably not gonna be enough. You often need this kind of multi-pronged approach where you are taking really good care of yourself. It doesn't mean life has to stop. We don't want life to stop, but just being mindful of your commitments and your sleep and that ability to heal and rest.

Annabel Bateman: 44:57

Yeah, yeah, it's so important. It's that holistic approach I mean, yeah, it has to be that it's never just one thing, that's. You know, I often say that it's never just one thing, it's never, just one thing that gets us to this point. It's never just one thing that's gonna get us out. It has to take a lifestyle, a holistic lifestyle approach. So yeah, that's it.

Dr Denise Furness: 45:16

And it's the best way, because it actually makes you feel genuinely well, like it's the. It doesn't mean you'll feel that way forever, I'm not gonna lie. There was a point where that you know, when I did wake up and go, oh my God, I'm back, I'm gonna be like this forever. I'm never gonna feel like that again. You know, you just, I'm obviously quite optimistic and enthusiastic and I was like that's it. You know, done and dusted. I've recovered. I'm amazing, but the reality is life will always throw things at you. There will always be ups and downs, but as long as you are trying to continue, it doesn't matter being perfect, but continue with these things that you have learned. And for myself, you know, I'm not always on supplements, but under times of stress or if I think there are things that I need, I will go back on those supplements. I'll be a bit stricter with my diet, I'll be a bit more mindful of my commitments, just to get things back in place before before shit hits the fan and we're allowed to swear.

Annabel Bateman: 46:10

I've noticed I said lots of swearing words sorry, I just tickle it with a little box, I think, when you upload the podcast. I'm sorry.

Dr Denise Furness: 46:17

If we do another one. I promise I won't. I've been hanging out. I'm running a study with a guy called Paul Taylor. He's an exercise physiologist and neuroscientist Interesting. Like me, I'm a genetic nutrition. Anyway. He just loves to swear and I have to say sometimes I do too and I feel like I'm gonna blame him. I'm gonna say I did a podcast and I'm gonna blame you, god. Anyway.

Annabel Bateman: 46:38

We've got a discipline. No, it's all good. It's all good. We're talking about swearing. Tell us about the MTHFR gene, because that's the one that always makes people wanna. You know, I know it's so funny. It's a great way into that. So tell us a bit about that.

Annabel Bateman: 46:51

And how it all connects, Should be testing for it. What do you do? I mean, you mentioned before ways of compensating for it, but yeah, because that's the one I think that people have heard about, just because it does sound like a swear word, which I'm not gonna say. But you know, you can all read between the lines.

Dr Denise Furness: 47:06

Yeah, it's funny because we had a midwife. So when I were running our research studies which were in pregnancy health, so first of all I worked in late pregnancy complications, so my PhD was looking at MTHFR and folate and diet and homocysteine and other genetics and methylation things that sit on the DNA, sort of in relation to late complications like preeclampsia or stillbirth or placental abruption, things like that growth restriction. And then when my postdoctoral fellowship I worked in a recurrent miscarriage clinic but I had a midwife. Her name was Denise too and she was Irish and she did, and actually Paul Taylor who is our co-investigator of the studies Irish must be an Irish thing, but she I remember the first time she said it to a patient you know the mother F gene and I was younger too. You know I was kind of you know in late twenties and I even though I'm don't mind swearing just in that kind of you know environment and I just was dying. I was like you can't say that to anyone. I've heard it so many times over the years. But the real name is methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase. We just call it MTHFR. Most of the time with genetics we never call them the whole names, they're so long. But people do affectionately call it the mother F gene, and that's because it can be for some people, because it does have a very significant impact on folate levels. So if you have this gene if you have there are two variants within the one gene. One's called 677. One's called 1298. That's because there are different locations in the gene, these variations. If you have a T or a TT, that means that you have either 35 or 70%. If you've got the TT, if you inherited this variant from mom and dad, a 70% reduction in that enzyme's ability to work, and what that means is you don't convert folate so efficiently around a particular pathway that is needed to support something called methylation, so there is no surprise that we hear so much about it, because it's a huge impact. That is fact. Where the confusion lies is, though, is that some people can take that out of context and think I've got the MTHFR gene that caused my miscarriage, or I've got MTHFR and that caused my Hashimoto's. It's something that impacts a very important pathway in the body, and there's no doubt it has an effect, but it's not the cause. Because it's the MTHFR Plus.

Dr Denise Furness: 49:50

You are likely to be low in folate because either you're not eating your green leafy vegetables, or you've got a gut disorder and you're not absorbing, or you're low in B12, perhaps it wasn't folate, because it's not just about folate. This pathway requires other B vitamins B12, b6 and everything to work efficiently. So it does have an important impact on folate and, of course, with pregnancy, we know folate is so important. And to step back and just give you a little bit more of the science, the reason this is important and we think about folate so much is it actually helps with the building blocks to make DNA. So DNA is made up of four bases A, t, c and G. There's just these four letters and then, amazing, four letters makes up all of this and then that makes you. You know it affects the way we look, our genetic predispositions to health and disease, our dietary requirements. It's crazy, right, but these four letters are basically what make up our DNA. And I just got so excited by my telling everyone about the DNA I almost forgot where I was going. But folate, yes. So folate helps you make one of those, the thymine, the T. So if you're low in folate, you're actually going to be low in one of the DNA bases for DNA synthesis. And if you think about pregnancy. We need all of those cells to replicate from a single cell, a sperm and egg coming together to billions of cells to make a baby. So if you're low in these building blocks, it's obviously fundamental for pregnancy. But it's not just pregnancy. As I said earlier in the podcast, we are always, you know, making new cells. We have programmed cell death when cells get old and then we're making new ones. You know, again, we need to, we need to be replenishing these things.

Dr Denise Furness: 51:43

So folate and that pathway is really important just for DNA, but also other things, like I mentioned before detoxification and hormones, which a lot of people listening with thyroid probably wanting to know about hormone balance too. You know MTHFR with its relationship in this methylation pathway. Methylation is one of the ways that we clear our estrogen hormones. So if you were having issues with you know let's say you do have that MTHFR snip you are likely to need more folate. You need to support that methylation pathway with your B vitamins. If you don't and things start to slow down, that whole pathway is sluggish. That's affecting methylation. That can mean you're not clearing your estrogen as well and then you could have higher estrogens and that can affect you know periods, you know heavy periods and things that you know you get fibrous, cystic breasts. You know just a lot of the symptoms that come with. You know that high estrogen. Or if you were unlucky enough to have exposure to arsenic, you know methylation is needed to clear arsenic and some heavy metals and things from the body. So MTHFR itself isn't directly doing these things, but in association with a poor diet or you know even things like high estrogen.

Dr Denise Furness: 53:03

If you do have high estrogen, if you do have high heavy metals, if you are extremely stressed and you have high adrenaline, even if you don't feel like you're stressed, but you're in that sort of chronic stress state, you are going to be using up more of what we call these methyl groups. Methylation is going to be just, you know, going, going, going because adrenaline methylation from this MTHFR and the other genes in that pathway and all these nutrients. They are required to clear adrenaline. So some people will have genetic variations in something else called COMT. It's called catacol-O-methyl transferase. It uses a methyl group and obviously MTHFR feeds into that, that methylation, making methyl groups. You can have a fast or slow COMT. Some people will actually tolerate stress better. They've got a faster COMT and as long as they've got plenty of methyl groups, you've got your B's, you've got your everything.

Dr Denise Furness: 53:57

It also requires magnesium. Many of you listening might have been told by a practitioner or read that you know magnesium or B vitamins are good for stress. That's because they directly help this enzyme, comt, work. So these genes and nutrients kind of work together. That's the whole nutrigenomics thing. But these work together to clear the adrenaline. If you're low in magnesium, if you're low in methyl groups because of you know, genetic staff and dietary staff, you will be more susceptible to feeling the effects of stress. You won't be able to calm down, you'll have an exacerbated stress response because you can't clear these stress hormones.

Annabel Bateman: 54:33

Yeah, and at these things I could probably a good question next Are these things that you test for in genetic, the genetic kind of testing that you're talking about? Are they? Can you test for all of those things?

Dr Denise Furness: 54:47

Yes, All of these. It wouldn't matter what testing company use, whether we were using smart DNA or you know there's quite a few my DNA. There's a lab in Melbourne now that has that. There's so many testing companies out there. Many of you might have done some testing. It's likely that whoever you've done testing with, you're always going to have MTHFR and the methylation genes. You know. Highly likely you'll have COMT, you'll have the vitamin D, hopefully you'll have vitamin A, but most of the testing companies will have all of these. What they are lacking is these HLA's, and the reason why they're lacking the HLA's is they're a little bit more complicated from a technical aspect. So I used to have a lab and I used to do DNA testing.

Dr Denise Furness: 55:33

Dna testing itself is actually pretty easy. Dna is pretty robust. You can get a bit of, you know, saliva. You can, you know, get a bit of skin cells. Actually testing DNA. You can amplify the DNA and you can get heaps of information. For most of those genes it's easy.

Dr Denise Furness: 55:51

The HLA's, though, the way they sit they all kind of sit on top of each other that it's just more difficult. Without getting too technical, just know that that comes with a little bit more difficulty. You need higher quality DNA and often a bit more of a cost. But, as I said, there is a company that offers an auto immune screen to sort of look at all of those things. But in saying that, I believe that my DNA, but definitely smart DNA, dna life they're the ones I often use. They have the HLA's with all the gluten sensitivity, so that's a bit more common to get. But to get the other HLA's linked with other auto immune diseases that they're not there. But really any testing company, even some people, might have done stuff online. There's a lot of, even direct to consumer testing. I'm not one to advise that so much because people can often get a bit confused or you just want to make sure you have someone to help you with that.

Dr Denise Furness: 56:52

It's very well to get the test, but if you don't understand what it means, yeah, and in the US there's a lot of American companies, a lot of international companies, even Asian companies, that offer genetic testing online. You can do that, but you just yeah. Again, I don't necessarily advise it because you want to know that the lab has all the accreditation, that they are meeting all of their quality control there's just the last thing you want is to get data that's not even matching you. So, again, working with a practitioner or being very confident in that particular testing company to make sure you are getting accurate results is good. But, yeah, most of the stuff that we talked about, particularly MTHFR, I am 99.9% certain any testing anyone did anywhere will definitely have MTHFRs, because there's a lot, it's a big interest and we know also, as a practitioner or a consumer, someone's that are doing this testing.

Dr Denise Furness: 57:52

We know that we can do something about it, and that's the difference with this kind of testing too. With Nutrigenomics, we are testing genes that have a functional effect in the body, but we also know that we can do something from a diet or a lifestyle perspective to, as I said, compensate or to improve that or to reduce risk or to optimize that gene function, whereas with clinical genetics, as I said, if we're looking for the disease. It doesn't matter what your diet, what your lifestyle is. You've still got a gene that is going to cause cystic fibrosis. So this is different. We're looking at things that affect function and nutrients and they may have a negative outcome if you have a certain kind of lifestyle, if you have certain nutrient deficiencies. But we can definitely address all of that when we know what to look for.

Annabel Bateman: 58:44

Yeah, and that's so hopeful, isn't it? You're not just stuck in a pile of crappy genes. We've all got our own unique selection that are turned on or off, but there's hope that we can actually work around that and work with our genetic predispositions for our long-term health and wellness. I think that's a really incredibly hopeful message. And, denise, do you work directly with clients, like if someone wanted to work with you? Tell us a little bit about what you do and what you offer. And, if so, if someone did want to start this process and didn't have anyone they would know to go to, can they come to you? Tell us a bit about what you offer? You can, and I know that you're putting this podcast out very quick.

Dr Denise Furness: 59:27

You're very efficient and at the moment I am taking patients. So we take patients twice a year at the start of the year and the middle of the year. We didn't take patients at the start of this year because I'm running the reversing biological age study, but yeah, we are. So that's our first three-month intervention around. That is sort of coming to an end. So we are open and you can definitely work one-on-one with me.

Dr Denise Furness: 59:53

I do have a thyroid program that probably won't be launched again until the end of the year, just because I have another program. So with the reversing biological age study, just very quickly, and talking about predispositions, I have a particular gene called apoE that links with Alzheimer's disease. So my mum developed early onset Alzheimer's. She's since passed. So I do a lot in the healthy aging aspect. You know just like my story has led me to thyroid, but also my mum's story and now knowing that I have a genetic risk factor for Alzheimer's. So that is something that I look at and just know that if you are interested in that, you've got a family history.

Dr Denise Furness: 1:00:31

That something I'm very passionate about is trying to help people navigate that, reduce their risk because even though with thyroid we have medication and we know, as we discussed, it doesn't really heal you but it does. You won't die. You know, if you have thyroxin and you have these things, it will protect you from dying, even if you're not feeling 100% well With Alzheimer's. The medications they give you know they might stop you having a seizure or they're you know cholesterol, but you're still going to progress. There is no, there is nothing with Alzheimer's that we have that can stop the development of that. The only thing we have is this preventative health strategy around lifestyle, and you can do a lot.

Dr Denise Furness: 1:01:09

There is a lot of cases now where we have reversed early stage Alzheimer's, early stage cognitive decline. Late stage is a bit more difficult. But just know that if you do want to do testing too, that is something that you have to opt in. So one particular company, smart DNA you do need to opt in and say whether you want that gene or not. Not everyone wants that gene. Not everyone wants to know.

Annabel Bateman: 1:01:31

Is that what you mean?

Dr Denise Furness: 1:01:34

Yeah, exactly so you might not want to know.

Dr Denise Furness: 1:01:36

Yeah, you might want to know your vitamin D, your methylation, you know all that stuff, but you go, I don't want to know. I have to say I don't think I've had anyone ever opt out of doing it. I guess the kind of person I attract is very interested. They do want the information and then they want to get that from me to know what can they do. But no, that's always an option too. And even if someone is concerned about things, even if you're not seeing me, you can express that to a practitioner and say I want to know part of it, but I'm a bit concerned about that. Or make sure you're very confident that they'll be able to deliver the strategies and the information so you are clear on what those results mean, because you should not come away feeling like there's something wrong with you.

Dr Denise Furness: 1:02:20

We all have these genetics. There is no one that's genetically perfect. Believe me. I've seen thousands now and even before doing this, I've been in practice now 10 years. I didn't leave 10 years of research with thousands of people. We all have genetic strengths and weaknesses. So but yeah, there's nothing wrong with you, we're just going to work with what you've got. So, yeah, if you want to work with me, please come and see me. You can find my website, which is just my name, dr Denise Furness. The business name is your Genes and Nutrition. I have a Facebook group. It's free. I used to pop in every Friday. It's not as consistent these days, but I answer questions and if you'd like to work with me one on one, we are taking people and you probably don't have such a long wait maybe about a month or so, three weeks, four weeks which is pretty quick to get in with me. Yeah, so I'd love to see you.

Annabel Bateman: 1:03:14

Yeah, awesome. Well, I'll make sure, obviously, although you know I'll put all those direct links in the description of the podcast. But look, I, we said before, we kind of I said, oh look, you know, we talk anywhere for 45 minutes to an hourish and we're already we're just on the hour. I feel like there's about at least 10 questions that I haven't asked, that I'd like to ask. So maybe we'll have to do a follow up. We were saying before, maybe we do a follow up and I'll do the genetic testing and we'll see where you know, see where that can go.

Dr Denise Furness: 1:03:44

Yeah, exactly, you could mention, mention what your results are, and I could, you know, help you navigate that and see how it ties in, because I think to. Once you've got your results then you're like, oh, that makes sense. You know, that is me. I am sensitive to caffeine. That's why it's a genetic thing or that one doesn't make sense. And if it doesn't, then we explore why. What's going on from an environmental perspective that's causing a symptom, if it's not genetic. So that could be fun, it could be fun.

Annabel Bateman: 1:04:11

It could be fun, well. Well, it's been really enjoyable talking to you, denise, and connecting and meeting, and I love that you're local, you know, like some of the time because Brisbane's pretty local. Yeah, this has been a really fascinating conversation. So I hope those of you listening are.

Annabel Bateman: 1:04:26

I've got some interest pricked and you know whether you want to dig into your own genetics or not a bit more, that's entirely up to you, but perhaps it might help to connect some more dots and I think when we live with a long term health condition, often it is this sort of journey of connecting the dots and understand, like you said before, denise, looking back and thinking, oh, that's why that happened, or oh, now this all makes sense and I can see how understanding our individual you know, genetics could really help to connect some of those dots. So I want to thank you for your time and your expertise in all of the things that you're doing to promote good health and wellness and hope and, you know, for people in, you know, not only in Australia and not only with thyroid conditions, but all around the globe. So thank you.

Dr Denise Furness: 1:05:15

Thank you. I have loved talking to you and hopefully we'll be back soon looking at your DNA results. Bye everyone.

Annabel Bateman: 1:05:22

Well, that was a pretty interesting conversation and, like I really do feel like I could have asked a gazillion other questions. I really could have kept going for a long time and I think Denise really likes a chat as well. So, just tossing up whether or not I want to invest in that, the DNA testing, not the DNA testing the genetic testing I have done. I did one a number of years ago. I pulled it out. After we finished recording, I pulled it out. It's much more basic than the ones that Denise uses. So anyway, I'm just working that out. If I do decide to go ahead, I'm very open to having an open conversation about the test and what it reveals with her on the show. So if you're really keen for that, let me know. If you really want to know what my genes are probably not that interested, but it might give you an idea of the process. I'll just have a bit of a think of it. It is a reasonable investment several hundred dollars. So yeah, I'm just weighing that one up. But in the meantime, here are a couple of questions for you to get you thinking about. Is there anything you do want to or need to implement as a result of having listened to that conversation, obviously the obvious thing was do you want to have your genetic profile done? And if you do, then she mentioned a few different companies like Smart DNA, dna Life. I think that there might have been one others, but they were the two that I wrote down. Obviously, you can get on their websites and have a look at what's involved with that. You can contact Denise if you want to work with her, or maybe you have a functional practitioner that can interpret those genetic testings, so that is definitely one thing you could do.

Annabel Bateman: 1:07:01

Number two is now that you can see that there is a genetic component with gluten and auto-inthyroid and celiac. If you haven't already given up gluten and I know probably the vast majority of you have, but if you've still been sitting on the fence, is that enough to tip you over the fence and to give going gluten free a good go? I always recommend going 100% gluten free for at least 30 days or a month will give you a very good idea of how much better you can feel. In fact, I was just talking with my mom and a lifelong friend of hers, a lady I've known forever all of my life anyway and she's 80, and she's just discovered fairly recently that she's celiac and she was telling me that within days, maybe the outside of a week, but she felt so significantly better when she gave up gluten and obviously she's celiac so that she's definitely going to feel better. But I hear the same stories from people who aren't necessarily celiac but have got issues, have Hashimoto's, have graves, and they give up gluten and within a few days to a week can feel significantly better. So I would really encourage you, if you haven't done that already, to dive in and do that.

Annabel Bateman: 1:08:17

And I guess the third thing is do you want to have that genetic celiac blood test? It's not a, to be honest, I don't think. I think I probably fit within that genetic the sorry, the Medicare rules. I don't remember ever paying for that. I don't know how much it is, wherever you are in the world, but I've found it really helpful to know that, even though I don't have celiac disease as far as I'm aware anyway, I haven't done any extensive. I haven't done the extensive test but just knowing I have that genetic predisposition and knowing that at least one of my three sons has that, it definitely makes me take the gluten-free thing much more seriously for myself and I have spoken about that with my son as well. That's a decision he has to make, where the way he addresses that now is almost 20.

Annabel Bateman: 1:09:09

So, but just understanding that genetic predisposition and it was really easy, it was just a blood test so if that's something that perhaps you think you should look into, then that would be my third question, just to get you thinking about that. So, do you need genetic testing? Do you need or want the celiac testing? And three, are you, you know, going to give gluten free a go? So there we go. Have a fantastic fortnight. I will see you on the show next time. This podcast, whether you're listening or watching, is intended to be positive and practical coaching style information, but it is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, including any thyroid disease, and it should not be used as a substitute for proper advice from a qualified professional. Thank you.